1 00:00:34,850 --> 00:00:33,290 well greetings this is Tim Beckley again 2 00:00:38,090 --> 00:00:34,860 reporting live for the conspiracy 3 00:00:41,210 --> 00:00:38,100 journal our model as always unfair 4 00:00:43,640 --> 00:00:41,220 unbalanced unedited today we have a very 5 00:00:45,530 --> 00:00:43,650 special guest I've known her in hand a 6 00:00:47,750 --> 00:00:45,540 hand Raj Hansen for quite a number of 7 00:00:50,210 --> 00:00:47,760 years but I've never had the opportunity 8 00:00:53,750 --> 00:00:50,220 to really speak with him he's written a 9 00:00:55,820 --> 00:00:53,760 very different book on the paranormal 10 00:00:58,280 --> 00:00:55,830 it's about the tricks there we're going 11 00:01:00,410 --> 00:00:58,290 to find out from a George in the next 20 12 00:01:02,719 --> 00:01:00,420 to 30 minutes exactly what the trickster 13 00:01:06,680 --> 00:01:02,729 is what he does and how he ties in with 14 00:01:13,640 --> 00:01:06,690 the UFO mystery so let us present George 15 00:01:16,130 --> 00:01:13,650 Hansen well now I take my famous 16 00:01:17,539 --> 00:01:16,140 position behind the camera George how 17 00:01:20,120 --> 00:01:17,549 are you today I'm fine 18 00:01:24,039 --> 00:01:20,130 yeah we're here we're here at the pet 19 00:01:26,620 --> 00:01:24,049 market telly oz this is his 51st UFO 20 00:01:29,209 --> 00:01:26,630 conference UFO paranormal conference 21 00:01:33,260 --> 00:01:29,219 Edgar Mitchell was on the livestream 22 00:01:36,050 --> 00:01:33,270 today we had Ted Phillips who's a good a 23 00:01:39,380 --> 00:01:36,060 long time a friend of mine talking about 24 00:01:41,569 --> 00:01:39,390 this mysterious find of his that he's 25 00:01:43,370 --> 00:01:41,579 going on an expedition to look for this 26 00:01:44,989 --> 00:01:43,380 thing that's buried way way down in the 27 00:01:48,230 --> 00:01:44,999 in a cave that may have been there for 28 00:01:49,760 --> 00:01:48,240 6,000 years or longer but George tell us 29 00:01:50,899 --> 00:01:49,770 you're an expert on the tricks or in 30 00:01:53,029 --> 00:01:50,909 fact you've written a book what is it 31 00:01:54,889 --> 00:01:53,039 called title is the trickster and the 32 00:01:57,889 --> 00:01:54,899 paranoia and how long has that been out 33 00:01:59,539 --> 00:01:57,899 now that came out in 2001 huh and so 34 00:02:01,090 --> 00:01:59,549 what what is it all about what is the 35 00:02:04,249 --> 00:02:01,100 trick sir why don't you explain it in 36 00:02:06,980 --> 00:02:04,259 simplistic terms to our to our viewers 37 00:02:08,719 --> 00:02:06,990 here the trickster is a character type 38 00:02:12,620 --> 00:02:08,729 found in mythology and folklore 39 00:02:16,809 --> 00:02:12,630 literally worldwide characters like Loki 40 00:02:22,190 --> 00:02:16,819 of the Norse Hermes of the Greeks 41 00:02:24,440 --> 00:02:22,200 mercury of the Romans SU Legba togi the 42 00:02:28,850 --> 00:02:24,450 list goes on and on and on it's a 43 00:02:30,080 --> 00:02:28,860 character type that is also known as a 44 00:02:32,420 --> 00:02:30,090 shapeshifter 45 00:02:35,720 --> 00:02:32,430 American Indians for instance the coyote 46 00:02:38,000 --> 00:02:35,730 and the Raven were symbols of the 47 00:02:40,550 --> 00:02:38,010 trickster but the American Indians knew 48 00:02:42,680 --> 00:02:40,560 that the trickster really wasn't just 49 00:02:45,320 --> 00:02:42,690 the coyote the coyote had though some of 50 00:02:50,390 --> 00:02:45,330 the characteristics but the trickster 51 00:02:52,730 --> 00:02:50,400 operated at a high level and it's sort 52 00:02:54,800 --> 00:02:52,740 of more of a pattern a way to think 53 00:02:57,470 --> 00:02:54,810 about the paranormal way to think about 54 00:02:59,180 --> 00:02:57,480 the world than an actual character or 55 00:03:03,830 --> 00:02:59,190 something really physical that you can 56 00:03:06,229 --> 00:03:03,840 touch it's an abstraction and people 57 00:03:07,610 --> 00:03:06,239 have a real difficult time with some of 58 00:03:10,970 --> 00:03:07,620 my theories because it is highly 59 00:03:14,300 --> 00:03:10,980 abstract and it is but it is based on 60 00:03:15,650 --> 00:03:14,310 lots and lots of examples now what would 61 00:03:18,650 --> 00:03:15,660 you say though the people who say well 62 00:03:23,060 --> 00:03:18,660 these are Indian stories legends passed 63 00:03:25,970 --> 00:03:23,070 down over generations storytellers 64 00:03:28,699 --> 00:03:25,980 oh sure yeah sure well mythology and 65 00:03:31,160 --> 00:03:28,709 folklore has lasted for thousands of 66 00:03:33,290 --> 00:03:31,170 years scientific theories if they're any 67 00:03:35,090 --> 00:03:33,300 good they might last for a few decades 68 00:03:37,610 --> 00:03:35,100 maybe a little longer and then they get 69 00:03:40,900 --> 00:03:37,620 changed but people have been telling 70 00:03:44,120 --> 00:03:40,910 these stories for a very very long time 71 00:03:45,949 --> 00:03:44,130 that suggests they have some very deep 72 00:03:48,259 --> 00:03:45,959 importance maybe something that we've 73 00:03:51,199 --> 00:03:48,269 forgotten or don't understand anymore 74 00:03:54,710 --> 00:03:51,209 but in some cultures these are very 75 00:03:57,320 --> 00:03:54,720 sacred stories and have a very great to 76 00:03:59,000 --> 00:03:57,330 do with how people lived in certain 77 00:04:02,360 --> 00:03:59,010 tribes in North American Indians 78 00:04:04,640 --> 00:04:02,370 certainly understand that well what 79 00:04:08,210 --> 00:04:04,650 exactly can you give us some examples of 80 00:04:12,110 --> 00:04:08,220 the trickster phenomena sure a trickster 81 00:04:14,420 --> 00:04:12,120 phenomena really happens in virtually 82 00:04:16,909 --> 00:04:14,430 all areas of the paranormal one of the 83 00:04:19,310 --> 00:04:16,919 most commonly observed things is the 84 00:04:22,490 --> 00:04:19,320 amount of fraud in physical mediumship 85 00:04:24,380 --> 00:04:22,500 where mediums will sit in the sands and 86 00:04:26,390 --> 00:04:24,390 physical things will happen like tables 87 00:04:28,880 --> 00:04:26,400 will levitate or wrapping sounds will 88 00:04:31,310 --> 00:04:28,890 occur voice is the trunk that's right 89 00:04:34,360 --> 00:04:31,320 I'm your dead Aunt Sally 90 00:04:39,220 --> 00:04:34,370 that's a repetitive Sally you do know 91 00:04:41,140 --> 00:04:39,230 but 150 years ago yes 92 00:04:44,280 --> 00:04:41,150 those were common but it was quite 93 00:04:48,370 --> 00:04:44,290 well-known that some of that phenomena 94 00:04:52,120 --> 00:04:48,380 involved trickery for stage magicians 95 00:04:54,010 --> 00:04:52,130 and close-up magicians simulate 96 00:04:55,110 --> 00:04:54,020 supernatural phenomena that's their 97 00:04:58,000 --> 00:04:55,120 stock-in-trade 98 00:05:01,450 --> 00:04:58,010 the supernatural the paranormal these 99 00:05:03,820 --> 00:05:01,460 phenomenon have been simulated and used 100 00:05:07,150 --> 00:05:03,830 in fraud and deception for a very very 101 00:05:10,000 --> 00:05:07,160 long time but there's a lot more to the 102 00:05:12,070 --> 00:05:10,010 trickster than just that well now when 103 00:05:14,740 --> 00:05:12,080 you say okay so there's there's this 104 00:05:16,720 --> 00:05:14,750 trickster phenomenon is somebody putting 105 00:05:20,050 --> 00:05:16,730 these people up to do that are we 106 00:05:22,210 --> 00:05:20,060 talking about a metaphysical trickster 107 00:05:23,770 --> 00:05:22,220 somebody saying aha I mean behind our 108 00:05:26,440 --> 00:05:23,780 back that's a very good joke sir the 109 00:05:28,330 --> 00:05:26,450 gesture the it acts that way I'm 110 00:05:31,590 --> 00:05:28,340 suggesting this is the way the world of 111 00:05:34,090 --> 00:05:31,600 billions the world and the universe 112 00:05:36,060 --> 00:05:34,100 conspires if you will and I'm not sure 113 00:05:40,450 --> 00:05:36,070 that's quite the right word oh it does 114 00:05:42,910 --> 00:05:40,460 but to produce phenomena and often they 115 00:05:45,790 --> 00:05:42,920 respond to our own consciousness if a 116 00:05:49,240 --> 00:05:45,800 person who is fearful of something that 117 00:05:51,820 --> 00:05:49,250 may tend to bring it about and 118 00:05:55,120 --> 00:05:51,830 laboratory based parapsychology we find 119 00:05:58,120 --> 00:05:55,130 that people's expectations have a fairly 120 00:06:00,610 --> 00:05:58,130 substantial influence on the results 121 00:06:02,590 --> 00:06:00,620 they gather if they tend to be believers 122 00:06:06,730 --> 00:06:02,600 in the phenomena they tend to score more 123 00:06:08,950 --> 00:06:06,740 highly than if they're skeptics so the 124 00:06:11,080 --> 00:06:08,960 universe is somehow connected to our 125 00:06:13,270 --> 00:06:11,090 consciousness in ways we don't fully 126 00:06:15,330 --> 00:06:13,280 understand and the trickster is partly a 127 00:06:18,369 --> 00:06:15,340 manifestation of that 128 00:06:21,550 --> 00:06:18,379 well it is that does the trick sir 129 00:06:25,239 --> 00:06:21,560 itself take on physical form it can yes 130 00:06:28,559 --> 00:06:25,249 certainly there are being phenomena 131 00:06:33,670 --> 00:06:28,569 within Sciences that tend to emerge from 132 00:06:36,670 --> 00:06:33,680 ectoplasm or who knows where some of the 133 00:06:39,339 --> 00:06:36,680 UFO phenomena as this transient quality 134 00:06:41,379 --> 00:06:39,349 its from short quali seems to be 135 00:06:44,890 --> 00:06:41,389 physical and real and maybe even 136 00:06:49,029 --> 00:06:44,900 tangible sort of evaporates one now do 137 00:06:52,540 --> 00:06:49,039 you have any favorite cases well there 138 00:06:56,439 --> 00:06:52,550 are lots and lots of cases of hoaxes in 139 00:06:58,330 --> 00:06:56,449 in this field fairly recently there was 140 00:07:01,029 --> 00:06:58,340 the scandal involving Phil and rogue you 141 00:07:04,899 --> 00:07:01,039 know for instance which I don't know if 142 00:07:08,740 --> 00:07:04,909 you can blame that on the can't yes 143 00:07:10,869 --> 00:07:08,750 this phenomena is pervasive in this 144 00:07:13,179 --> 00:07:10,879 field and it tends to discredit it but 145 00:07:15,309 --> 00:07:13,189 the trickster operates in a higher level 146 00:07:16,869 --> 00:07:15,319 well they're here also to it's 147 00:07:18,189 --> 00:07:16,879 interesting that Phil and broad know if 148 00:07:22,029 --> 00:07:18,199 people don't know who he is he claimed 149 00:07:24,129 --> 00:07:22,039 that he had a degree from MIT MIT he's 150 00:07:26,469 --> 00:07:24,139 written all these books on the Djinn and 151 00:07:28,570 --> 00:07:26,479 other paranormal phenomena he started 152 00:07:31,240 --> 00:07:28,580 out as a pretty conservative or 153 00:07:33,369 --> 00:07:31,250 researcher of lights in the sky and and 154 00:07:35,469 --> 00:07:33,379 phenomena in the hot Sun village don't 155 00:07:38,139 --> 00:07:35,479 first yes even wrote a book with dr. 156 00:07:41,019 --> 00:07:38,149 Hynek then all of a sudden he's gone 157 00:07:44,110 --> 00:07:41,029 well beyond that into a realms of the 158 00:07:46,059 --> 00:07:44,120 paranormal and other realities he's in 159 00:07:48,579 --> 00:07:46,069 the chambers up in New England and 160 00:07:50,230 --> 00:07:48,589 speaking and seeing all kinds of 161 00:07:52,209 --> 00:07:50,240 phenomena there some of which seem to be 162 00:07:52,899 --> 00:07:52,219 legitimate now the peculiar thing about 163 00:07:54,909 --> 00:07:52,909 that 164 00:07:56,439 --> 00:07:54,919 what's the trips the phenomena not 165 00:07:58,959 --> 00:07:56,449 everything that he's researched but the 166 00:08:01,360 --> 00:07:58,969 fact that he had to tell a lie that has 167 00:08:03,279 --> 00:08:01,370 no meaning even right I mean why tell 168 00:08:05,469 --> 00:08:03,289 well I say that you you have a degree 169 00:08:07,269 --> 00:08:05,479 from MIT it's not essential to even 170 00:08:08,829 --> 00:08:07,279 telling the story except it's almost 171 00:08:11,980 --> 00:08:08,839 like subconsciously you want to get 172 00:08:15,309 --> 00:08:11,990 caught in the fib or there's always a 173 00:08:17,469 --> 00:08:15,319 desire in many parents in with many 174 00:08:19,929 --> 00:08:17,479 paranormal investigators they want to be 175 00:08:20,370 --> 00:08:19,939 respected they really want respect in a 176 00:08:23,760 --> 00:08:20,380 certain 177 00:08:27,360 --> 00:08:23,770 of status the trim like us who are only 178 00:08:29,990 --> 00:08:27,370 looking for famous war know if you've 179 00:08:32,640 --> 00:08:30,000 hung around with Tim Beckley for anyway 180 00:08:34,980 --> 00:08:32,650 you know he doesn't have a lot of status 181 00:08:36,890 --> 00:08:34,990 in the academic world now it never 182 00:08:39,210 --> 00:08:36,900 claimed to but I mean on the other hand 183 00:08:41,880 --> 00:08:39,220 it typically doesn't believe that you 184 00:08:44,580 --> 00:08:41,890 need to have a science isn't what this 185 00:08:46,920 --> 00:08:44,590 is all about not science in the the way 186 00:08:49,890 --> 00:08:46,930 that we define it so you can have every 187 00:08:51,420 --> 00:08:49,900 jock of LA and every person with a 188 00:08:52,800 --> 00:08:51,430 degree looking into this and they're not 189 00:08:54,030 --> 00:08:52,810 going to find the answers because 190 00:08:55,680 --> 00:08:54,040 they're not looking in the right place 191 00:08:57,720 --> 00:08:55,690 absolutely agree with you and that's 192 00:09:00,960 --> 00:08:57,730 part of the trickster phenomena the the 193 00:09:04,560 --> 00:09:00,970 trickster works between categories 194 00:09:08,040 --> 00:09:04,570 science likes to set up well-defined 195 00:09:10,830 --> 00:09:08,050 categories and concepts it's where these 196 00:09:12,930 --> 00:09:10,840 concepts and categories tend to blur 197 00:09:15,720 --> 00:09:12,940 that we find these phenomena for 198 00:09:17,720 --> 00:09:15,730 instance the verdict here British I'm 199 00:09:21,900 --> 00:09:17,730 not sure the pronunciation our 200 00:09:24,090 --> 00:09:21,910 characters in American Indians that that 201 00:09:27,420 --> 00:09:24,100 take the role of the opposite sex they 202 00:09:30,030 --> 00:09:27,430 blur the sexual roles many of these 203 00:09:32,250 --> 00:09:30,040 people were viewed as having 204 00:09:35,310 --> 00:09:32,260 supernatural power that's correct 205 00:09:38,220 --> 00:09:35,320 and they also many of them became a 206 00:09:39,570 --> 00:09:38,230 shaman again we blur that distinction do 207 00:09:42,780 --> 00:09:39,580 you know that some of the Indian tribes 208 00:09:45,300 --> 00:09:42,790 the Hurok I believe it is they actually 209 00:09:46,740 --> 00:09:45,310 had the shaman we go into a tent and the 210 00:09:48,780 --> 00:09:46,750 tent would start to shake it very 211 00:09:52,890 --> 00:09:48,790 similar to this what the spiritual yes 212 00:09:55,410 --> 00:09:52,900 yes the shaking tent ceremony was common 213 00:09:57,990 --> 00:09:55,420 in several different tribes and it's 214 00:09:59,010 --> 00:09:58,000 extreme there are very very many and 215 00:10:01,080 --> 00:09:59,020 then the lights would they maybe they 216 00:10:03,720 --> 00:10:01,090 would have us a fire inside you see 217 00:10:07,590 --> 00:10:03,730 other people in there who probably were 218 00:10:09,810 --> 00:10:07,600 in their shadow yes and also sometimes 219 00:10:12,330 --> 00:10:09,820 the shamans would be bound with rope and 220 00:10:14,580 --> 00:10:12,340 they would escape very very many 221 00:10:17,340 --> 00:10:14,590 parallels with early spiritualism and 222 00:10:19,590 --> 00:10:17,350 many of the spiritualist had Indian 223 00:10:20,260 --> 00:10:19,600 guides I don't think that's true yeah 224 00:10:22,540 --> 00:10:20,270 yeah 225 00:10:24,310 --> 00:10:22,550 don't think that's a coincidence I doubt 226 00:10:26,620 --> 00:10:24,320 there is some real connection very good 227 00:10:29,410 --> 00:10:26,630 very good well now did you know George 228 00:10:30,580 --> 00:10:29,420 for example that of course most tribes 229 00:10:33,000 --> 00:10:30,590 have their own clowns 230 00:10:37,870 --> 00:10:33,010 that's what everything came from well 231 00:10:40,150 --> 00:10:37,880 Clara Clara Belle the clown was actually 232 00:10:44,230 --> 00:10:40,160 what a business it was a Clara Belle the 233 00:10:45,640 --> 00:10:44,240 clown had actually was a name that one 234 00:10:48,790 --> 00:10:45,650 of the clans actually derived from the 235 00:10:51,190 --> 00:10:48,800 actual Indian the names that were were 236 00:10:53,800 --> 00:10:51,200 used very innocent because there is a 237 00:10:56,380 --> 00:10:53,810 fair amount of literature on clowns in 238 00:10:58,540 --> 00:10:56,390 American Indians and a lot of the 239 00:11:01,090 --> 00:10:58,550 analysis by anthropologists and folklore 240 00:11:04,630 --> 00:11:01,100 isn't derived from analysis of the 241 00:11:07,990 --> 00:11:04,640 trickster figure because the clown's 242 00:11:09,910 --> 00:11:08,000 would violate taboos and violate the 243 00:11:11,320 --> 00:11:09,920 normal order of things and they could be 244 00:11:13,750 --> 00:11:11,330 kind of scary especially to little 245 00:11:17,820 --> 00:11:13,760 children but they were very very 246 00:11:20,170 --> 00:11:17,830 important figures and they were it's a 247 00:11:21,790 --> 00:11:20,180 bozo by the way it wasn't Clarabelle 248 00:11:23,620 --> 00:11:21,800 looks good Lou okay the clown the right 249 00:11:25,240 --> 00:11:23,630 credit because the the try and the 250 00:11:28,510 --> 00:11:25,250 tribes name instead of buzzer was Mickey 251 00:11:30,550 --> 00:11:28,520 bozo so obviously that's where bozo got 252 00:11:32,470 --> 00:11:30,560 the name from already some literature so 253 00:11:34,630 --> 00:11:32,480 much for maybe it's the trickster 254 00:11:37,390 --> 00:11:34,640 working behind the scenes again it could 255 00:11:40,810 --> 00:11:37,400 be Tim Timothy green Beckley's brain or 256 00:11:45,130 --> 00:11:40,820 something I don't know but yes the 257 00:11:46,720 --> 00:11:45,140 clowns are very important and I haven't 258 00:11:48,370 --> 00:11:46,730 looked I spend years since I've read 259 00:11:50,560 --> 00:11:48,380 that literature but they come up time 260 00:11:53,920 --> 00:11:50,570 and time again and some of the clowns 261 00:11:55,720 --> 00:11:53,930 have shamanistic powers as well how 262 00:11:58,360 --> 00:11:55,730 about the space brothers the space 263 00:12:00,490 --> 00:11:58,370 people or are they a trickster god yes 264 00:12:02,680 --> 00:12:00,500 yes Yeti parallels you could draw their 265 00:12:04,720 --> 00:12:02,690 first of their shapeshifters yeah they 266 00:12:08,470 --> 00:12:04,730 may tell the truth they may not they may 267 00:12:10,570 --> 00:12:08,480 provide healing for some people and may 268 00:12:13,030 --> 00:12:10,580 cause serious health problems with 269 00:12:15,100 --> 00:12:13,040 others they are regarded as sort of 270 00:12:17,710 --> 00:12:15,110 dangerous there's a taboo they're a 271 00:12:20,200 --> 00:12:17,720 little bit like Bigfoot now most people 272 00:12:22,090 --> 00:12:20,210 don't realize that American Indians 273 00:12:24,780 --> 00:12:22,100 we're familiar with Bigfoot but they 274 00:12:28,140 --> 00:12:24,790 understood it was not an 275 00:12:30,900 --> 00:12:28,150 horrible animal there was a problem if 276 00:12:33,240 --> 00:12:30,910 you saw a Bigfoot in some tribes one had 277 00:12:35,220 --> 00:12:33,250 to be ritually purified because one 278 00:12:38,430 --> 00:12:35,230 could infect other members of the tribe 279 00:12:41,520 --> 00:12:38,440 yes there was a taboo a stigma attached 280 00:12:44,520 --> 00:12:41,530 that that was contagious and couldn't do 281 00:12:47,460 --> 00:12:44,530 love make bad things come about if it 282 00:12:49,350 --> 00:12:47,470 was not ritually taken care of so the 283 00:12:51,330 --> 00:12:49,360 American Indians had a more 284 00:12:53,340 --> 00:12:51,340 sophisticated understanding of these 285 00:12:56,940 --> 00:12:53,350 phenomena than we do in our Western 286 00:12:58,800 --> 00:12:56,950 rationalistic fan society today science 287 00:13:01,950 --> 00:12:58,810 doesn't quite get that again we've got 288 00:13:05,130 --> 00:13:01,960 this blurring of categories is a Bigfoot 289 00:13:09,720 --> 00:13:05,140 an animal or human again it sort of 290 00:13:12,660 --> 00:13:09,730 blurs that that middle ground spirits 291 00:13:15,510 --> 00:13:12,670 and seances do the same thing in our 292 00:13:17,790 --> 00:13:15,520 society today we can consider that there 293 00:13:21,000 --> 00:13:17,800 are two distinct states life and death 294 00:13:25,260 --> 00:13:21,010 you're either one or the other but 295 00:13:27,960 --> 00:13:25,270 spiritual mediums bridge that gap they 296 00:13:30,600 --> 00:13:27,970 are betwixt in between and it's in this 297 00:13:33,810 --> 00:13:30,610 betwixt and between realm that we find 298 00:13:36,540 --> 00:13:33,820 the trickster phenomenon to emerge UFOs 299 00:13:38,250 --> 00:13:36,550 are a really good case in point we this 300 00:13:41,820 --> 00:13:38,260 thing just between the heavens and the 301 00:13:45,720 --> 00:13:41,830 earth that's what many anthropologists 302 00:13:50,550 --> 00:13:45,730 call a major binary opposition angels 303 00:13:53,610 --> 00:13:50,560 and UFOs traverse between the heavens 304 00:13:55,620 --> 00:13:53,620 and the earth and again that is a 305 00:13:57,150 --> 00:13:55,630 blurred area and that's where we find 306 00:13:59,100 --> 00:13:57,160 these tricksters - I'll tell you 307 00:14:02,580 --> 00:13:59,110 tricksters operate from another realm 308 00:14:05,040 --> 00:14:02,590 another dimension or the Inner Earth or 309 00:14:07,650 --> 00:14:05,050 none of the above I would say none of 310 00:14:11,130 --> 00:14:07,660 the above and all of the above I'm not 311 00:14:15,240 --> 00:14:11,140 sure we have a that it fits into that 312 00:14:18,080 --> 00:14:15,250 kind of category scheme it's more 313 00:14:20,040 --> 00:14:18,090 a realm of betwixt in between where our 314 00:14:22,320 --> 00:14:20,050 consciousness make this makes 315 00:14:24,810 --> 00:14:22,330 distinctions between when are you 316 00:14:29,430 --> 00:14:24,820 throwing Carl Jung at us a little bit 317 00:14:32,280 --> 00:14:29,440 you wrote on the trickster yes he did he 318 00:14:34,740 --> 00:14:32,290 wrote about Hermes and he talked about 319 00:14:37,860 --> 00:14:34,750 the trickster being the combination of 320 00:14:39,510 --> 00:14:37,870 all opposites and so between life and 321 00:14:42,510 --> 00:14:39,520 yeah between the heavens and the earth 322 00:14:44,640 --> 00:14:42,520 so he understood that opposites were 323 00:14:46,680 --> 00:14:44,650 very fundamental to understanding the 324 00:14:48,600 --> 00:14:46,690 trickster now do the tricksters do they 325 00:14:50,760 --> 00:14:48,610 have it can they have other do they have 326 00:14:54,180 --> 00:14:50,770 minions do it can they make people do 327 00:14:57,750 --> 00:14:54,190 their bidding do they mean control maybe 328 00:14:59,790 --> 00:14:57,760 some other I don't conceive of a 329 00:15:04,590 --> 00:14:59,800 trickster as sort of as an entity like 330 00:15:08,010 --> 00:15:04,600 that but there are gym and other spirit 331 00:15:12,780 --> 00:15:08,020 special type beings that clearly display 332 00:15:15,270 --> 00:15:12,790 the qualities of tricks tourism and some 333 00:15:17,700 --> 00:15:15,280 perhaps more than others so I don't 334 00:15:20,910 --> 00:15:17,710 think of tricksters as causing things 335 00:15:22,620 --> 00:15:20,920 this is just what happens we between the 336 00:15:27,690 --> 00:15:22,630 interaction between our consciousness 337 00:15:29,250 --> 00:15:27,700 and the external world but you did 338 00:15:32,760 --> 00:15:29,260 mention the Djinn for example which is 339 00:15:36,420 --> 00:15:32,770 the Islamic version of either that the 340 00:15:38,220 --> 00:15:36,430 demonic forces or some underworld forces 341 00:15:40,380 --> 00:15:38,230 or actually something that exists on a 342 00:15:43,140 --> 00:15:40,390 parallel well according to their 343 00:15:47,240 --> 00:15:43,150 definition the jinn head was here before 344 00:15:51,570 --> 00:15:47,250 a man right and came from smoke where is 345 00:15:53,640 --> 00:15:51,580 mankind came from clay mm-hmm well smoke 346 00:15:56,250 --> 00:15:53,650 this or a combination between earth and 347 00:15:59,640 --> 00:15:56,260 airs has this betwixt in between quality 348 00:16:03,030 --> 00:15:59,650 so again it's an area where tricks 349 00:16:05,220 --> 00:16:03,040 tourism is likely to manifest what are 350 00:16:07,769 --> 00:16:05,230 the other things that really got me 351 00:16:10,980 --> 00:16:07,779 interested in the trickster phenomena 352 00:16:15,300 --> 00:16:10,990 was the fact that paranormal research 353 00:16:18,150 --> 00:16:15,310 never gets fully institutionalized for 354 00:16:19,889 --> 00:16:18,160 instance parapsychology is not fun 355 00:16:25,069 --> 00:16:19,899 there's no departments of parapsychology 356 00:16:31,139 --> 00:16:28,280 attempts to study it within institutions 357 00:16:35,059 --> 00:16:31,149 never last very long but it does it does 358 00:16:40,489 --> 00:16:35,069 not a lesser law yet and and the the 359 00:16:45,840 --> 00:16:43,410 methodology sometimes it's flawed or is 360 00:16:50,239 --> 00:16:45,850 accused of being flawed and the results 361 00:16:53,579 --> 00:16:50,249 are always open to grand the debate and 362 00:16:56,280 --> 00:16:53,589 yes but this is nothing new you can go 363 00:16:58,290 --> 00:16:56,290 back 2,000 years ago and find the 364 00:17:01,170 --> 00:16:58,300 debates about the reality of these 365 00:17:03,749 --> 00:17:01,180 phenomena very very similar to what we 366 00:17:06,029 --> 00:17:03,759 find today the key to understanding 367 00:17:08,520 --> 00:17:06,039 these phenomena is to realize that the 368 00:17:10,679 --> 00:17:08,530 disputes about the reality have been 369 00:17:14,220 --> 00:17:10,689 going on for literally thousands of 370 00:17:17,250 --> 00:17:14,230 years this is not new so when we are 371 00:17:21,569 --> 00:17:17,260 debating the skeptics today we are just 372 00:17:24,919 --> 00:17:21,579 happy viewing and echoing three pounds 373 00:17:27,809 --> 00:17:24,929 1l would you say is there a way for a 374 00:17:30,320 --> 00:17:27,819 UFO experience sir who might be 375 00:17:34,200 --> 00:17:30,330 undergoing and you know there's some 376 00:17:36,210 --> 00:17:34,210 abduction or a probe or or something 377 00:17:38,340 --> 00:17:36,220 like is there a way for them to fight it 378 00:17:40,139 --> 00:17:38,350 is that can you ask them are you a 379 00:17:43,440 --> 00:17:40,149 trickster will they melt in front of you 380 00:17:46,080 --> 00:17:43,450 or I don't have any advice for someone 381 00:17:49,350 --> 00:17:46,090 undergoing that sort of go along with it 382 00:17:51,510 --> 00:17:49,360 I wouldn't advise that one of the things 383 00:17:54,990 --> 00:17:51,520 I would advise is to make sure that 384 00:17:58,590 --> 00:17:55,000 one's life has a certain pattern and 385 00:18:01,410 --> 00:17:58,600 regularity to it yes many people who 386 00:18:03,960 --> 00:18:01,420 encounter these phenomena are you 387 00:18:05,880 --> 00:18:03,970 during periods of transition where their 388 00:18:09,570 --> 00:18:05,890 lives are sort of falling apart they 389 00:18:12,720 --> 00:18:09,580 lost a job a loved one a divorce periods 390 00:18:14,880 --> 00:18:12,730 of stress periods of transition into 391 00:18:16,580 --> 00:18:14,890 something else and that's very 392 00:18:20,220 --> 00:18:16,590 uncomfortable position but these 393 00:18:27,810 --> 00:18:20,230 phenomena can change flourish under 394 00:18:29,880 --> 00:18:27,820 those types of problems now do you think 395 00:18:32,700 --> 00:18:29,890 like the trickster it seems like 396 00:18:35,750 --> 00:18:32,710 something that would have been regulated 397 00:18:40,070 --> 00:18:35,760 two ages past but obviously it's still 398 00:18:42,960 --> 00:18:40,080 working here or lurking behind the scene 399 00:18:46,260 --> 00:18:42,970 you're right in fact there's some very 400 00:18:49,650 --> 00:18:46,270 interesting academic work on the court 401 00:18:53,190 --> 00:18:49,660 jester and for hundreds of years the 402 00:18:57,870 --> 00:18:53,200 court jester had a very major place in 403 00:19:00,630 --> 00:18:57,880 the tarot card - yes yeah but around the 404 00:19:03,750 --> 00:19:00,640 time of the Renaissance it took roughly 405 00:19:06,180 --> 00:19:03,760 in that era the court jester started to 406 00:19:10,530 --> 00:19:06,190 disappear the court jester could 407 00:19:12,150 --> 00:19:10,540 challenge the king in Makka people liked 408 00:19:15,600 --> 00:19:12,160 and could get away with it so it was 409 00:19:18,150 --> 00:19:15,610 understood that this person who was sort 410 00:19:20,820 --> 00:19:18,160 of not part of the royal court but sort 411 00:19:24,420 --> 00:19:20,830 of part of it would have certain 412 00:19:27,540 --> 00:19:24,430 privileges so the trickster has been 413 00:19:30,180 --> 00:19:27,550 suppressed the whole way we think about 414 00:19:32,220 --> 00:19:30,190 the world that what Max Weber talked 415 00:19:35,250 --> 00:19:32,230 about the rationalization of the world 416 00:19:37,350 --> 00:19:35,260 and making rational categories tends to 417 00:19:39,960 --> 00:19:37,360 suppress the tricks and we don't notice 418 00:19:43,770 --> 00:19:39,970 them he removes now does this irritate 419 00:19:45,780 --> 00:19:43,780 the trickster it I don't know if it 420 00:19:49,380 --> 00:19:45,790 irritates but the trickster will operate 421 00:19:51,150 --> 00:19:49,390 somewhere else the tricksters continuum 422 00:19:55,460 --> 00:19:51,160 like with like convincing people that Oh 423 00:20:01,080 --> 00:19:58,740 and the trickster works on status it 424 00:20:04,620 --> 00:20:01,090 likes to bring down the high and mighty 425 00:20:08,580 --> 00:20:04,630 to make food for the trick yes let's 426 00:20:10,610 --> 00:20:08,590 have a host of gin - the tricks yeah I 427 00:20:14,480 --> 00:20:10,620 would say yes and the true 428 00:20:17,390 --> 00:20:14,490 stur is more widely accepted and 429 00:20:20,150 --> 00:20:17,400 understood by people on the margins in 430 00:20:22,370 --> 00:20:20,160 the lower order and in fact if you look 431 00:20:25,900 --> 00:20:22,380 at the best theoretical work on the 432 00:20:29,120 --> 00:20:25,910 tracer you find it among black scholars 433 00:20:31,730 --> 00:20:29,130 American Indian scholars some women 434 00:20:34,670 --> 00:20:31,740 scholars and Chris O'Brien yes but he's 435 00:20:37,670 --> 00:20:34,680 not an academic Oh toto but if you look 436 00:20:41,650 --> 00:20:37,680 at the old white men academics they 437 00:20:44,570 --> 00:20:41,660 rarely get the basic ideas and the real 438 00:20:47,390 --> 00:20:44,580 insights come from the minority scholars 439 00:20:50,120 --> 00:20:47,400 and some of the women and it is lard in 440 00:20:52,880 --> 00:20:50,130 some of the best of their work is sort 441 00:20:55,640 --> 00:20:52,890 of brushed off but a person who comes 442 00:20:58,250 --> 00:20:55,650 from an outsider perspective will get 443 00:20:58,940 --> 00:20:58,260 and understand the trickster much more 444 00:21:00,680 --> 00:20:58,950 effectively 445 00:21:02,990 --> 00:21:00,690 now does this tie in with the 446 00:21:03,680 --> 00:21:03,000 shapeshifters yes the trickster is a 447 00:21:06,230 --> 00:21:03,690 shapeshifter 448 00:21:07,910 --> 00:21:06,240 in fact American Indians understood that 449 00:21:11,060 --> 00:21:07,920 very very well well but we think it's a 450 00:21:13,340 --> 00:21:11,070 shapeshifters though if you believe in 451 00:21:16,580 --> 00:21:13,350 them they can't leave physical creatures 452 00:21:21,290 --> 00:21:16,590 yeah you know the struggle your dog or 453 00:21:23,750 --> 00:21:21,300 leave it a puddle of much in your yard 454 00:21:28,549 --> 00:21:23,760 or write something yeah yeah no that's 455 00:21:30,410 --> 00:21:28,559 that's very trickster like in fact I 456 00:21:32,570 --> 00:21:30,420 suspect there's something with cattle 457 00:21:34,790 --> 00:21:32,580 mutilations Hermes for instance when 458 00:21:36,320 --> 00:21:34,800 when he was a practically a newborn he 459 00:21:38,560 --> 00:21:36,330 went out and killed a bunch of cockles 460 00:21:41,900 --> 00:21:38,570 and made a sacrifice 461 00:21:46,190 --> 00:21:41,910 well George you have a wealth of 462 00:21:49,130 --> 00:21:46,200 knowledge on this and I think it should 463 00:21:51,590 --> 00:21:49,140 be disseminated all over the planet and 464 00:21:54,020 --> 00:21:51,600 let's get that the trickster in the mean 465 00:21:57,860 --> 00:21:54,030 time let's say goodbye to our friend 466 00:22:00,410 --> 00:21:57,870 bozo and Sicily coyote here and George 467 00:22:04,430 --> 00:22:00,420 thank you for being on our little 468 00:22:07,280 --> 00:22:04,440 program it's unfair unbalanced and 469 00:22:15,860 --> 00:22:07,290 unedited that's for sure great time 470 00:22:19,139 --> 00:22:15,870 thank you oh well here we are again with 471 00:22:22,379 --> 00:22:19,149 another edition of our unfair unbalanced 472 00:22:24,299 --> 00:22:22,389 unedited today I got my old buddy here 473 00:22:26,219 --> 00:22:24,309 Ted Phillips yeah and we're gonna go 474 00:22:29,249 --> 00:22:26,229 onto a journey you're not going to 475 00:22:32,940 --> 00:22:29,259 believe so let me take my position 476 00:22:36,989 --> 00:22:32,950 behind the camera because remember I can 477 00:22:39,450 --> 00:22:36,999 see you but you can't see me yeah so Ted 478 00:22:43,649 --> 00:22:39,460 you and I did a wonderful interview when 479 00:22:46,109 --> 00:22:43,659 we first met a several years ago sir 480 00:22:48,299 --> 00:22:46,119 yeah and we've been in somewhat of 481 00:22:50,489 --> 00:22:48,309 communications but not all that much we 482 00:22:53,279 --> 00:22:50,499 say hello on Facebook is our photos 483 00:22:56,249 --> 00:22:53,289 passed by real quickly and you post some 484 00:22:58,320 --> 00:22:56,259 very photographs of you and dr. Hynek 485 00:23:00,060 --> 00:22:58,330 and you've been doing this how he looks 486 00:23:02,249 --> 00:23:00,070 you were so young well just like me I 487 00:23:04,259 --> 00:23:02,259 should talk I was like 15 when I started 488 00:23:07,499 --> 00:23:04,269 this were you about that age too well 489 00:23:11,039 --> 00:23:07,509 actually I got interested in this stuff 490 00:23:15,419 --> 00:23:11,049 when I was 9 but didn't do any real work 491 00:23:18,389 --> 00:23:15,429 until about 28 - and what was your first 492 00:23:20,310 --> 00:23:18,399 case Seguros a quarrel yes there's a 493 00:23:22,859 --> 00:23:20,320 photograph of you is it with Lonnie 494 00:23:25,049 --> 00:23:22,869 Zamora and dr. Hynek in your around the 495 00:23:26,729 --> 00:23:25,059 burn mark in the ground hmm what were 496 00:23:29,009 --> 00:23:26,739 you living in Missouri then you just 497 00:23:30,989 --> 00:23:29,019 shut up on your own and yeah decided to 498 00:23:32,700 --> 00:23:30,999 go yeah dr. Hynek didn't know you were 499 00:23:36,149 --> 00:23:32,710 coming he didn't invite you I didn't 500 00:23:38,070 --> 00:23:36,159 know dr. Hynek at all no no and now 501 00:23:39,690 --> 00:23:38,080 recently somebody talking about Socorro 502 00:23:42,659 --> 00:23:39,700 somebody recently came up with this 503 00:23:44,999 --> 00:23:42,669 totally ridiculous theory that the 504 00:23:47,099 --> 00:23:45,009 Sapporo was like a hoax created by some 505 00:23:50,700 --> 00:23:47,109 college students with a balloon and a 506 00:23:52,999 --> 00:23:50,710 projector or something I yeah and one or 507 00:23:56,940 --> 00:23:53,009 two words what do you think of that I 508 00:24:05,579 --> 00:23:56,950 can't really say remember this is unfair 509 00:24:08,479 --> 00:24:05,589 unbalanced and unedited yeah it's it 510 00:24:12,889 --> 00:24:08,489 really it I have seen over the years 511 00:24:16,079 --> 00:24:12,899 folks come along with really really dumb 512 00:24:19,619 --> 00:24:16,089 uneducated ideas to explain away 513 00:24:24,089 --> 00:24:19,629 squirrel it's a very complex case and a 514 00:24:25,680 --> 00:24:24,099 lot of aspects to it and a lot of points 515 00:24:29,909 --> 00:24:25,690 that tell us that happened 516 00:24:32,430 --> 00:24:29,919 mmm and physical evidence and so on yeah 517 00:24:33,810 --> 00:24:32,440 actually the the witness and Lonnie 518 00:24:36,360 --> 00:24:33,820 Zamora just passed away within the last 519 00:24:38,460 --> 00:24:36,370 couple of years I think yeah he seems 520 00:24:40,889 --> 00:24:38,470 pretty sincere to you I guess yes almost 521 00:24:43,379 --> 00:24:40,899 everybody yeah I was fortunate enough to 522 00:24:46,889 --> 00:24:43,389 talk to the media hadn't gotten to him 523 00:24:49,710 --> 00:24:46,899 yet so in 64 I got to talk to him right 524 00:24:52,799 --> 00:24:49,720 after the event and then a couple of 525 00:24:54,749 --> 00:24:52,809 times through the years later did it did 526 00:24:57,299 --> 00:24:54,759 anything change about what he was saying 527 00:25:01,139 --> 00:24:57,309 or did he come up with some different 528 00:25:03,899 --> 00:25:01,149 beliefs or theories or out no he was it 529 00:25:05,190 --> 00:25:03,909 was kind of a Jack Webb thing I guess 530 00:25:08,369 --> 00:25:05,200 fits a policeman 531 00:25:10,560 --> 00:25:08,379 you know just the facts and I was very 532 00:25:13,009 --> 00:25:10,570 impressed now I guess most people don't 533 00:25:15,600 --> 00:25:13,019 realize but there were other witnesses 534 00:25:17,430 --> 00:25:15,610 there was a couple that they not stopped 535 00:25:20,070 --> 00:25:17,440 at a gas station or something and say 536 00:25:21,840 --> 00:25:20,080 that they had seen an unusual with with 537 00:25:23,820 --> 00:25:21,850 it were they credible did anybody 538 00:25:25,639 --> 00:25:23,830 interview them or do you know or you 539 00:25:29,100 --> 00:25:25,649 know I don't think they were interviewed 540 00:25:31,799 --> 00:25:29,110 it was the word of the generous station 541 00:25:34,919 --> 00:25:31,809 attendant but nevertheless systems 542 00:25:37,889 --> 00:25:34,929 before this jumped to a higher level and 543 00:25:40,789 --> 00:25:37,899 no one really cared no one really knew 544 00:25:44,460 --> 00:25:40,799 anything about it but there was also a 545 00:25:46,830 --> 00:25:44,470 family and I'm thinking they were from 546 00:25:50,149 --> 00:25:46,840 the Chicago area was determined race 547 00:25:53,850 --> 00:25:50,159 Stanford of course did the great book 548 00:25:57,240 --> 00:25:53,860 with flying saucer and Pentagon Pentagon 549 00:26:01,350 --> 00:25:57,250 pantry or Air Force Base tremendous book 550 00:26:03,480 --> 00:26:01,360 all along Sakura and by the way he asked 551 00:26:07,769 --> 00:26:03,490 me a year and a half ago he said how 552 00:26:09,720 --> 00:26:07,779 about you and I doing a paper on Sakura 553 00:26:11,100 --> 00:26:09,730 together and I said absolutely of course 554 00:26:11,430 --> 00:26:11,110 I haven't heard from him well that's 555 00:26:13,499 --> 00:26:11,440 better 556 00:26:16,320 --> 00:26:13,509 he's he's a busy guy digging up dinosaur 557 00:26:17,909 --> 00:26:16,330 nests I hear yes yeah so now what one 558 00:26:20,159 --> 00:26:17,919 other cases just to briefly because we 559 00:26:22,169 --> 00:26:20,169 were someone limited here today we've 560 00:26:26,210 --> 00:26:22,179 all been hanging out at Pat market 561 00:26:28,619 --> 00:26:26,220 illios 54s can you believe that 51 562 00:26:31,560 --> 00:26:28,629 conferences there that that almost 563 00:26:33,090 --> 00:26:31,570 boggles the the mind yeah it does you're 564 00:26:34,640 --> 00:26:33,100 just getting rounding up those speakers 565 00:26:36,860 --> 00:26:34,650 and he's got everyone that's 566 00:26:39,110 --> 00:26:36,870 I think recorded over the years and just 567 00:26:40,880 --> 00:26:39,120 about every but today Edgar Mitchell was 568 00:26:44,510 --> 00:26:40,890 on the live the same here and of course 569 00:26:46,010 --> 00:26:44,520 you spoke I think this is the first time 570 00:26:48,560 --> 00:26:46,020 in a long time you've been out east 571 00:26:51,170 --> 00:26:48,570 there right yes actually it is she I 572 00:26:55,970 --> 00:26:51,180 went through last year's health problems 573 00:26:59,799 --> 00:26:55,980 yes and fairly significant and doing 574 00:27:03,260 --> 00:26:59,809 great doing much much better now and 575 00:27:04,490 --> 00:27:03,270 have several lectures lined up well 576 00:27:06,230 --> 00:27:04,500 looking because I know people want to 577 00:27:08,090 --> 00:27:06,240 hear what you have to say especially 578 00:27:10,940 --> 00:27:08,100 with some of these new things that you 579 00:27:13,220 --> 00:27:10,950 just started talking about yeah Marly 580 00:27:15,049 --> 00:27:13,230 would the samargan yeah and even more 581 00:27:17,750 --> 00:27:15,059 exciting to me because of my interest in 582 00:27:20,360 --> 00:27:17,760 the the legends and lore of the the 583 00:27:23,090 --> 00:27:20,370 underworld yes is you're a future trip 584 00:27:26,450 --> 00:27:23,100 coming up pretty soon we hope and we 585 00:27:30,740 --> 00:27:26,460 understand to Slovakia lavake 586 00:27:32,570 --> 00:27:30,750 yeah okay and in in three minutes or so 587 00:27:33,680 --> 00:27:32,580 just give us a little hint about what 588 00:27:35,600 --> 00:27:33,690 that's all about I know you've been 589 00:27:37,549 --> 00:27:35,610 there several times before there's 590 00:27:38,810 --> 00:27:37,559 something that's ticking or making a 591 00:27:44,480 --> 00:27:38,820 sound 592 00:27:47,330 --> 00:27:44,490 you know ticking bomb actually a Czech 593 00:27:52,190 --> 00:27:47,340 engineer had three engineering degrees 594 00:27:55,130 --> 00:27:52,200 during world war two was being hidden in 595 00:27:58,190 --> 00:27:55,140 a cave after his battalion was wiped out 596 00:28:02,150 --> 00:27:58,200 by the Germans and they were hidden 597 00:28:04,490 --> 00:28:02,160 there by a Slovak sheepherder and this 598 00:28:07,280 --> 00:28:04,500 was a cave that he held in very high 599 00:28:11,360 --> 00:28:07,290 regard kept the entrance covered with 600 00:28:14,090 --> 00:28:11,370 stones and had been taken into it in the 601 00:28:16,280 --> 00:28:14,100 30s by his father and grandfather what 602 00:28:19,130 --> 00:28:16,290 year was it discovered it was discovered 603 00:28:23,630 --> 00:28:19,140 in October of 1944 okay 604 00:28:26,090 --> 00:28:23,640 yeah and the Czech engineer was had been 605 00:28:29,660 --> 00:28:26,100 captured by the Germans put in a 606 00:28:33,020 --> 00:28:29,670 concentration camp 2:39 escaped in 41 607 00:28:35,360 --> 00:28:33,030 which didn't happen too often and he 608 00:28:38,330 --> 00:28:35,370 joined the Slovak underground army 609 00:28:40,430 --> 00:28:38,340 became a captain and had fought in World 610 00:28:44,390 --> 00:28:40,440 War one so he had a lot of combat 611 00:28:46,550 --> 00:28:44,400 experience and so anyway they were under 612 00:28:46,899 --> 00:28:46,560 attack they were all killed except for 613 00:28:49,680 --> 00:28:46,909 this 614 00:28:52,479 --> 00:28:49,690 gentleman and to his soldiers and the 615 00:28:56,049 --> 00:28:52,489 sheepherder hides some in this case 616 00:28:59,859 --> 00:28:56,059 which is a cranny opens into a very 617 00:29:02,320 --> 00:28:59,869 large expensive room and immediately he 618 00:29:05,589 --> 00:29:02,330 notices at the back a passageway that 619 00:29:08,440 --> 00:29:05,599 went on and they had not had food for 620 00:29:11,619 --> 00:29:08,450 four days and that sounded really really 621 00:29:16,299 --> 00:29:11,629 good so as soon as he did all the time 622 00:29:20,229 --> 00:29:16,309 haha yeah delicacy but the Slavic 623 00:29:22,389 --> 00:29:20,239 gentleman asked him not to explore the 624 00:29:26,440 --> 00:29:22,399 cave not to go back because it was 625 00:29:31,119 --> 00:29:26,450 dangerous there was gas and bottomless 626 00:29:32,830 --> 00:29:31,129 pits and it was haunted and one of the 627 00:29:36,940 --> 00:29:32,840 interesting things when he first took 628 00:29:42,719 --> 00:29:36,950 the the Slovak soldiers in as he went 629 00:29:45,820 --> 00:29:42,729 through the religious rights the rights 630 00:29:49,359 --> 00:29:45,830 blessing the guys himself and the cave 631 00:29:52,180 --> 00:29:49,369 there was a very significant thing in 632 00:29:54,849 --> 00:29:52,190 his life and he had been taken to the 633 00:29:57,669 --> 00:29:54,859 back of the cave and obviously had seen 634 00:30:01,989 --> 00:29:57,679 the artifact and I found out much later 635 00:30:04,210 --> 00:30:01,999 in 1971 that he actually had admitted to 636 00:30:08,379 --> 00:30:04,220 knowing this thing was in there now when 637 00:30:10,869 --> 00:30:08,389 you say artifact it is making Aryan was 638 00:30:14,680 --> 00:30:10,879 making a sound yeah 639 00:30:18,609 --> 00:30:14,690 a pulse that would affect a trimeter 640 00:30:22,539 --> 00:30:18,619 three compasses that I put in the center 641 00:30:25,109 --> 00:30:22,549 of a roughly 25 foot area that I ran on 642 00:30:27,700 --> 00:30:25,119 to trying to find the entrance and 643 00:30:29,859 --> 00:30:27,710 batteries on all the equipment would go 644 00:30:33,710 --> 00:30:29,869 dead when you got in there well maybe 645 00:30:37,159 --> 00:30:33,720 it's working on my camera probably is 646 00:30:42,919 --> 00:30:37,169 it's not that far 7,000 miles 647 00:30:45,769 --> 00:30:42,929 but anyway being quick of mind you know 648 00:30:48,080 --> 00:30:45,779 I thought well if the Trifield being 649 00:30:50,210 --> 00:30:48,090 activated by something so I put the 650 00:30:53,119 --> 00:30:50,220 Trifield and three compasses out in the 651 00:30:56,029 --> 00:30:53,129 middle of this area the camcorder on a 652 00:31:01,009 --> 00:30:56,039 tripod backed it outside of the affected 653 00:31:03,909 --> 00:31:01,019 areas that would run and zoomed in with 654 00:31:07,580 --> 00:31:03,919 the telephoto on the instruments and 655 00:31:09,549 --> 00:31:07,590 great video of all of these instruments 656 00:31:13,220 --> 00:31:09,559 while the chemists in the try field 657 00:31:24,680 --> 00:31:13,230 every two seconds pulsing dropping off 658 00:31:27,350 --> 00:31:24,690 pulsing very blank the Trifield and the 659 00:31:28,310 --> 00:31:27,360 compass is pulsing back and forth every 660 00:31:30,080 --> 00:31:28,320 two seconds 661 00:31:33,350 --> 00:31:30,090 and it wasn't know what indicate what 662 00:31:38,029 --> 00:31:33,360 well it was indicating some kind of I 663 00:31:40,310 --> 00:31:38,039 would think an e/m sort of fact I mean 664 00:31:43,820 --> 00:31:40,320 how the ground is someone or something 665 00:31:45,769 --> 00:31:43,830 keeping something alive don't know I 666 00:31:47,419 --> 00:31:45,779 don't know but when the engineer I 667 00:31:50,629 --> 00:31:47,429 always liked the real-life version of 668 00:31:52,940 --> 00:31:50,639 the thing it could well be but remember 669 00:32:00,440 --> 00:31:52,950 I'm going in this place I was I got to 670 00:32:04,159 --> 00:32:00,450 graphic so and we hope and hopefully 671 00:32:08,889 --> 00:32:04,169 you're coming out with a big something 672 00:32:11,720 --> 00:32:08,899 in yellow yeah a sample that's one arm 673 00:32:16,070 --> 00:32:11,730 yeah well an art would be good yeah yeah 674 00:32:21,159 --> 00:32:16,080 you'd be happy about that but this this 675 00:32:24,560 --> 00:32:21,169 artifact because of its surroundings and 676 00:32:28,730 --> 00:32:24,570 the situation it was found in is 677 00:32:32,149 --> 00:32:28,740 extremely old now how old do you think 678 00:32:37,299 --> 00:32:32,159 it is well based on the limestone drip 679 00:32:41,090 --> 00:32:37,309 each on an average and the effects of 680 00:32:44,480 --> 00:32:41,100 flowstone stalagmites growing on the 681 00:32:46,390 --> 00:32:44,490 face of the outer wall it would have to 682 00:32:48,340 --> 00:32:46,400 be far in excess 683 00:32:51,130 --> 00:32:48,350 6000 years well how the heck did it get 684 00:32:52,870 --> 00:32:51,140 down there it's a good question yeah 685 00:32:56,050 --> 00:32:52,880 sure it's a good question 686 00:32:56,740 --> 00:32:56,060 yeah it the cave entrance from the cave 687 00:32:58,330 --> 00:32:56,750 entrance 688 00:33:01,060 --> 00:32:58,340 yeah I'm big enough though the cave 689 00:33:03,450 --> 00:33:01,070 entrance right oh no no no not it well 690 00:33:07,240 --> 00:33:03,460 and they found the prehistoric cave bear 691 00:33:09,190 --> 00:33:07,250 inside this thing and the cave bear 692 00:33:11,470 --> 00:33:09,200 could not have gotten through this this 693 00:33:13,450 --> 00:33:11,480 small crack right leading to the 694 00:33:16,540 --> 00:33:13,460 interior of this so maybe the earth has 695 00:33:19,480 --> 00:33:16,550 shifted could be could be yeah it 696 00:33:24,100 --> 00:33:19,490 definitely has been therefore there 697 00:33:26,710 --> 00:33:24,110 could be another entrance he couldn't 698 00:33:29,800 --> 00:33:26,720 find any now he wasn't he was he didn't 699 00:33:34,870 --> 00:33:29,810 have the time to explore the mini-site 700 00:33:38,130 --> 00:33:34,880 past yeah yeah to get into the the 701 00:33:40,570 --> 00:33:38,140 bigger room where the artifact is that 702 00:33:42,760 --> 00:33:40,580 the cave bear would have had to have 703 00:33:46,000 --> 00:33:42,770 crawled through a two-foot-high space 704 00:33:47,730 --> 00:33:46,010 and a cave bear couldn't do that he 705 00:33:51,960 --> 00:33:47,740 could barely get a foot through there 706 00:33:53,830 --> 00:33:51,970 they were massive massive dudes 707 00:34:00,730 --> 00:33:53,840 hopefully you all find one of them 708 00:34:02,950 --> 00:34:00,740 hibernating okay so you have a you have 709 00:34:04,480 --> 00:34:02,960 a documentary deal or a movie deal on 710 00:34:11,940 --> 00:34:04,490 this or we're finding out about its own 711 00:34:17,470 --> 00:34:11,950 yeah next month may we show no no 712 00:34:21,490 --> 00:34:17,480 probably some escaped convict that's who 713 00:34:24,490 --> 00:34:21,500 I generally work with whoever's got the 714 00:34:26,980 --> 00:34:24,500 money yes absolutely yeah so do you that 715 00:34:29,889 --> 00:34:26,990 what what's your chances of finding this 716 00:34:33,730 --> 00:34:29,899 I think pretty good yeah as a matter of 717 00:34:37,000 --> 00:34:33,740 fact I think I have the right cave and 718 00:34:39,370 --> 00:34:37,010 her number of indicators I mentioned in 719 00:34:42,340 --> 00:34:39,380 a presentation that explain why I 720 00:34:47,340 --> 00:34:42,350 believe that and pretty pretty valid 721 00:34:49,950 --> 00:34:47,350 stuff and and not only that the 722 00:34:53,790 --> 00:34:49,960 the lay of the cave I have the original 723 00:34:56,880 --> 00:34:53,800 cave map is drawn by the engineer in 724 00:34:58,650 --> 00:34:56,890 1944 and he kept all of this all the 725 00:35:00,450 --> 00:34:58,660 sketches well I've seen the 726 00:35:02,040 --> 00:35:00,460 documentation today you gave a a two 727 00:35:04,620 --> 00:35:02,050 hour almost two-hour presentation 728 00:35:09,750 --> 00:35:04,630 there's a fabulous I mean both of our 729 00:35:11,610 --> 00:35:09,760 people were actually even awake III have 730 00:35:13,680 --> 00:35:11,620 not sit through an entire two-hour 731 00:35:15,660 --> 00:35:13,690 lecture since I can remember I haven't 732 00:35:17,490 --> 00:35:15,670 either I even fell asleep recently on a 733 00:35:20,880 --> 00:35:17,500 radio broadcast yeah it was interviewing 734 00:35:27,150 --> 00:35:20,890 me yeah yeah well I have to be up 735 00:35:28,860 --> 00:35:27,160 commercials eyes okay well it certainly 736 00:35:32,760 --> 00:35:28,870 puts you that's out of the realm of 737 00:35:35,520 --> 00:35:32,770 Sapporo yes oh yes oh yeah you had you 738 00:35:37,200 --> 00:35:35,530 had told doctor of Hynek about this if 739 00:35:40,520 --> 00:35:37,210 you said go ahead go yeah well actually 740 00:35:45,000 --> 00:35:40,530 he he's Bentley came out right away to 741 00:35:47,400 --> 00:35:45,010 the engineers home in 1970 and we both 742 00:35:49,770 --> 00:35:47,410 visited with he and his wife they were 743 00:35:53,670 --> 00:35:49,780 living in Denver in Boulder Boulder 744 00:35:57,240 --> 00:35:53,680 Colorado yeah and very very sincere 745 00:36:00,660 --> 00:35:57,250 people and they had been through a lot 746 00:36:04,590 --> 00:36:00,670 first the Nazis and then rescued by the 747 00:36:08,460 --> 00:36:04,600 Russians and turned on by them and so 748 00:36:11,160 --> 00:36:08,470 they had you know they were living the 749 00:36:13,920 --> 00:36:11,170 life of leisure prior to the German 750 00:36:18,390 --> 00:36:13,930 invasion and that went to hell in a 751 00:36:22,950 --> 00:36:18,400 handbasket and you know being thrown in 752 00:36:24,840 --> 00:36:22,960 a concentration camp that's so what do 753 00:36:28,350 --> 00:36:24,850 you think this is it's a it's an ancient 754 00:36:32,160 --> 00:36:28,360 alien artifact I really have no idea I 755 00:36:35,520 --> 00:36:32,170 really don't there's no indicator other 756 00:36:38,190 --> 00:36:35,530 than it obviously was constructed of 757 00:36:43,590 --> 00:36:38,200 some kind of materials were not aware of 758 00:36:48,260 --> 00:36:43,600 today and a seamless large device like 759 00:36:51,720 --> 00:36:48,270 this and a jet-black mirror finish 760 00:36:54,900 --> 00:36:51,730 material and he actually used his 761 00:36:57,150 --> 00:36:54,910 military rifle and shot at the wall 762 00:37:00,359 --> 00:36:57,160 because he couldn't get a piece of it 763 00:37:02,910 --> 00:37:00,369 for a sample and the bullet didn't even 764 00:37:06,230 --> 00:37:02,920 no Inter's is this a craft or a 765 00:37:10,440 --> 00:37:06,240 container why don't know it via move 766 00:37:12,749 --> 00:37:10,450 Superman inside he may be only Superman 767 00:37:15,299 --> 00:37:12,759 could move this thing it's large it's 768 00:37:16,710 --> 00:37:15,309 very well that I have I had followed you 769 00:37:18,539 --> 00:37:16,720 for several years talking about this 770 00:37:22,670 --> 00:37:18,549 that I I find this probably most 771 00:37:26,809 --> 00:37:22,680 intriguing ongoing episodic incident yes 772 00:37:31,680 --> 00:37:26,819 yes like the old shavers stories ever is 773 00:37:33,329 --> 00:37:31,690 one but I openly yeah one one would find 774 00:37:36,599 --> 00:37:33,339 it hard to believe that an associate of 775 00:37:41,009 --> 00:37:36,609 dr. Hynek would be and now investigating 776 00:37:45,420 --> 00:37:41,019 other realms and other theories outside 777 00:37:47,430 --> 00:37:45,430 of spaceships from Mars but I know for a 778 00:37:49,200 --> 00:37:47,440 fact that I spoke with dr. Hynek a few 779 00:37:50,759 --> 00:37:49,210 times before he's passing he even told 780 00:37:53,700 --> 00:37:50,769 me some very interesting men in black 781 00:37:55,079 --> 00:37:53,710 stories yes yes yes follow that very 782 00:37:57,839 --> 00:37:55,089 intriguing there having taken a 783 00:38:00,720 --> 00:37:57,849 photograph of what might have been a I 784 00:38:03,120 --> 00:38:00,730 don't know but anyway you you've moved 785 00:38:06,539 --> 00:38:03,130 as have several other people to feel 786 00:38:10,589 --> 00:38:06,549 from a very conservative approach to the 787 00:38:13,559 --> 00:38:10,599 to the subject of UFOs or flying saucers 788 00:38:15,450 --> 00:38:13,569 to someone who is now investigating or 789 00:38:16,200 --> 00:38:15,460 thinking about parallel realms and other 790 00:38:18,210 --> 00:38:16,210 dimensions 791 00:38:22,380 --> 00:38:18,220 what brought you along this path and 792 00:38:25,140 --> 00:38:22,390 have you given up the idea and all for 793 00:38:28,579 --> 00:38:25,150 good that these may be spaceships I have 794 00:38:31,519 --> 00:38:28,589 and actually Jay Allen was the guy that 795 00:38:34,160 --> 00:38:31,529 converted me I didn't know it but he 796 00:38:36,960 --> 00:38:34,170 quite often said you know the 797 00:38:40,799 --> 00:38:36,970 extra-terrestrial theory is far too 798 00:38:42,660 --> 00:38:40,809 simple and he said we have to go far 799 00:38:45,509 --> 00:38:42,670 beyond that he said this is much more 800 00:38:47,700 --> 00:38:45,519 complicated and I was grubbing around 801 00:38:49,620 --> 00:38:47,710 for nuts and bolts or oil leaks 802 00:38:50,999 --> 00:38:49,630 certainly you wonder the journey that 803 00:38:54,210 --> 00:38:51,009 you had over what four or five hundred 804 00:38:58,799 --> 00:38:54,220 cases a landing trace well back then 805 00:39:01,259 --> 00:38:58,809 yeah now I have 5189 are they still 806 00:39:04,620 --> 00:39:01,269 taking place they are but at a very 807 00:39:08,339 --> 00:39:04,630 reduced rate and by different types of 808 00:39:12,739 --> 00:39:08,349 devices one thing that I noticed 809 00:39:16,799 --> 00:39:12,749 the late 80s we started having less 810 00:39:19,589 --> 00:39:16,809 landing cases involving a 35-foot we'll 811 00:39:20,430 --> 00:39:19,599 say metal discs with little guys running 812 00:39:23,219 --> 00:39:20,440 around under it 813 00:39:26,329 --> 00:39:23,229 I miss those little guys yeah actually I 814 00:39:30,210 --> 00:39:26,339 kind of like the neighbor yeah funny you 815 00:39:33,239 --> 00:39:30,220 know yeah but but what has replaced 816 00:39:35,430 --> 00:39:33,249 those are the the much smaller light 817 00:39:38,519 --> 00:39:35,440 bulbs ranging from baseball to beach 818 00:39:40,650 --> 00:39:38,529 ball sized orbs well I don't like to 819 00:39:44,160 --> 00:39:40,660 call another word yeah because like a 820 00:39:47,759 --> 00:39:44,170 dust and photos and orbs and you know 821 00:39:51,329 --> 00:39:47,769 these these are actually things that you 822 00:39:55,559 --> 00:39:51,339 see vigilant and they have a tendency to 823 00:39:58,109 --> 00:39:55,569 come quite close in in some events well 824 00:40:01,019 --> 00:39:58,119 I know I just purchased some you this 825 00:40:04,469 --> 00:40:01,029 afternoon a copy of a DVD that you would 826 00:40:06,529 --> 00:40:04,479 did on Morley woods which is a incident 827 00:40:08,880 --> 00:40:06,539 there in Missouri you're homeless state 828 00:40:10,319 --> 00:40:08,890 involving these mysterious I guess I 829 00:40:13,640 --> 00:40:10,329 would call them ghost lights spook 830 00:40:18,140 --> 00:40:13,650 lights what do you call them well 831 00:40:23,059 --> 00:40:18,150 actually it runs the entire spectrum of 832 00:40:26,160 --> 00:40:23,069 UFO type events and now even into the 833 00:40:30,450 --> 00:40:26,170 typically called paranormal sorts of 834 00:40:33,150 --> 00:40:30,460 events and so it comes down to this and 835 00:40:35,640 --> 00:40:33,160 I have the cases to back it up if you 836 00:40:37,519 --> 00:40:35,650 have a blue light ball the size of 837 00:40:40,200 --> 00:40:37,529 baseball and it's flying over a field 838 00:40:45,140 --> 00:40:40,210 you can clearly see it you can capture 839 00:40:48,599 --> 00:40:45,150 it on HD video you have typically a UFO 840 00:40:52,650 --> 00:40:48,609 what if you see precisely the same thing 841 00:40:55,620 --> 00:40:52,660 inside a house is it then still a UFO or 842 00:40:58,559 --> 00:40:55,630 is it a paranormal event because a lot 843 00:41:01,640 --> 00:40:58,569 of paranormal researchers see yes and 844 00:41:04,109 --> 00:41:01,650 capture just that kind of activity and 845 00:41:07,069 --> 00:41:04,119 and there are good cases 846 00:41:09,779 --> 00:41:07,079 why are you familiar with the case in 847 00:41:11,579 --> 00:41:09,789 Colorado and Black Forest you know that 848 00:41:16,200 --> 00:41:11,589 one I believe the guy's name is Steve 849 00:41:19,050 --> 00:41:16,210 Lee who has a all these things coming 850 00:41:21,480 --> 00:41:19,060 out of the wall and out of the mirror 851 00:41:24,450 --> 00:41:21,490 and outside the house there's a few 852 00:41:27,420 --> 00:41:24,460 things posted on YouTube but not many it 853 00:41:28,860 --> 00:41:27,430 was on the Attic strange universe all 854 00:41:30,000 --> 00:41:28,870 kinds of things just like shooting 855 00:41:31,830 --> 00:41:30,010 around the house and coming out of the 856 00:41:34,830 --> 00:41:31,840 woods and stuff like that is another one 857 00:41:37,140 --> 00:41:34,840 of these cases that it seems to be 858 00:41:39,540 --> 00:41:37,150 really really perplexing and he even had 859 00:41:41,550 --> 00:41:39,550 I think he even wrote to his state 860 00:41:44,370 --> 00:41:41,560 senator who came up and saw some 861 00:41:47,520 --> 00:41:44,380 phenomena I hear voices you know it's a 862 00:41:50,370 --> 00:41:47,530 whole mixed bag of paranormal activity 863 00:41:54,450 --> 00:41:50,380 mm-hmm no actually I'm not familiar with 864 00:41:58,440 --> 00:41:54,460 that it sounds sort of like what we're 865 00:42:01,140 --> 00:41:58,450 having in the Majerle area and so it 866 00:42:03,780 --> 00:42:01,150 integrate the way I look at it is no 867 00:42:06,510 --> 00:42:03,790 matter what your prior thoughts might be 868 00:42:10,440 --> 00:42:06,520 if you start running into something new 869 00:42:12,960 --> 00:42:10,450 and different and it continues and you 870 00:42:15,750 --> 00:42:12,970 can capture it on video if a video 871 00:42:18,450 --> 00:42:15,760 camera can capture it you can be pretty 872 00:42:21,540 --> 00:42:18,460 sure it's something kind of physical 873 00:42:23,820 --> 00:42:21,550 anyway and you have to go in that 874 00:42:26,010 --> 00:42:23,830 direction you know I'm not giving up on 875 00:42:29,190 --> 00:42:26,020 the nuts and bolts or the urinating 876 00:42:29,910 --> 00:42:29,200 thing but UFOs urinate no no the little 877 00:42:32,580 --> 00:42:29,920 guys 878 00:42:36,390 --> 00:42:32,590 oh the utility only your name yeah not 879 00:42:38,340 --> 00:42:36,400 much because you have to look very close 880 00:42:42,900 --> 00:42:38,350 eyes have you really found cases like 881 00:42:46,380 --> 00:42:42,910 that no not all too bad that would be 882 00:42:48,300 --> 00:42:46,390 that would be I could see the headline 883 00:42:49,710 --> 00:42:48,310 in the movie headline yeah headline in 884 00:42:52,470 --> 00:42:49,720 the Weekly World News if we're still 885 00:42:55,590 --> 00:42:52,480 around yeah so have you any conclusions 886 00:42:59,880 --> 00:42:55,600 at all as to what's going on here 887 00:43:03,960 --> 00:42:59,890 I really don't argue as I hate to say 888 00:43:07,050 --> 00:43:03,970 that after 48 years but I'm even more 889 00:43:11,640 --> 00:43:07,060 convinced by the data and the evidence 890 00:43:15,000 --> 00:43:11,650 that something very real is going on and 891 00:43:16,259 --> 00:43:15,010 it's just beyond their knowledge at hand 892 00:43:18,659 --> 00:43:16,269 you know 893 00:43:21,509 --> 00:43:18,669 and the only way to come to conclusion 894 00:43:23,759 --> 00:43:21,519 is to get enough data to come to a 895 00:43:26,429 --> 00:43:23,769 conclusion can you come to conclusion no 896 00:43:27,689 --> 00:43:26,439 no I mean not now but even in the future 897 00:43:29,579 --> 00:43:27,699 is it possible to come to a conclusion 898 00:43:33,089 --> 00:43:29,589 I'm not sure how do you prove the 899 00:43:35,189 --> 00:43:33,099 conclusion yes I'm not really yeah 900 00:43:37,439 --> 00:43:35,199 that's a very good point I think about 901 00:43:39,809 --> 00:43:37,449 that a lot why do I do this why do I 902 00:43:42,749 --> 00:43:39,819 continue to do this except it's 903 00:43:45,269 --> 00:43:42,759 fascinating it's fascinating and also to 904 00:43:47,039 --> 00:43:45,279 I I think that you know this is what I 905 00:43:49,019 --> 00:43:47,049 tell people I see well I don't know as 906 00:43:51,659 --> 00:43:49,029 if it matters whether somebody has 907 00:43:53,189 --> 00:43:51,669 necessarily told the tall tale if you 908 00:43:55,109 --> 00:43:53,199 want to believe it or they want the Mars 909 00:43:56,879 --> 00:43:55,119 or Venus that it's all part of the same 910 00:43:58,439 --> 00:43:56,889 package yeah I kind of feel that we're 911 00:44:01,529 --> 00:43:58,449 all kind of on the mothership being 912 00:44:03,479 --> 00:44:01,539 drawn somewhere for some reason or maybe 913 00:44:06,299 --> 00:44:03,489 no reason yeah but if we're all kind of 914 00:44:09,419 --> 00:44:06,309 in this together whether we like it or 915 00:44:10,769 --> 00:44:09,429 not so I usually keep my sharp tongue in 916 00:44:15,419 --> 00:44:10,779 my mouth thoughts I have to be doing a 917 00:44:17,219 --> 00:44:15,429 vampire movie yourself my fine show but 918 00:44:19,019 --> 00:44:17,229 I I just figure eight if you know 919 00:44:20,579 --> 00:44:19,029 somebody's onto a trip a trip of their 920 00:44:23,639 --> 00:44:20,589 own now now mine happens to be 921 00:44:26,069 --> 00:44:23,649 synchronicity things that patterns and 922 00:44:28,679 --> 00:44:26,079 things and coincidences that happen that 923 00:44:30,989 --> 00:44:28,689 are just not even explainable I mean you 924 00:44:32,909 --> 00:44:30,999 can't even have a remote reason to say 925 00:44:34,319 --> 00:44:32,919 that this would happen and people know 926 00:44:36,559 --> 00:44:34,329 about the stuff documented on the air 927 00:44:38,639 --> 00:44:36,569 and written a couple of articles that 928 00:44:41,789 --> 00:44:38,649 are there any other cases that you're 929 00:44:45,599 --> 00:44:41,799 investigating currently the well let's 930 00:44:47,699 --> 00:44:45,609 see the Marly stuff is and working 931 00:44:50,999 --> 00:44:47,709 towards the cave trip that's yes 932 00:44:55,409 --> 00:44:51,009 primarily what I'm doing the Marly 933 00:45:00,899 --> 00:44:55,419 things keep me way plenty busy it's it's 934 00:45:04,259 --> 00:45:00,909 remarkable i I have the opinion that if 935 00:45:07,679 --> 00:45:04,269 one could observe the entire area there 936 00:45:10,409 --> 00:45:07,689 that you would pick up something pretty 937 00:45:13,289 --> 00:45:10,419 well every evening and day it's seen 938 00:45:14,669 --> 00:45:13,299 that daylight also is it yeah and what 939 00:45:17,180 --> 00:45:14,679 is the appearance that they take on 940 00:45:19,730 --> 00:45:17,190 pretty much the same as 941 00:45:21,710 --> 00:45:19,740 at night and the light balls have been 942 00:45:25,299 --> 00:45:21,720 seen in daylight the big hammer has been 943 00:45:29,150 --> 00:45:25,309 seen and photographed in daylight and 944 00:45:33,170 --> 00:45:29,160 the problem with this stuff Tim is it 945 00:45:37,579 --> 00:45:33,180 makes no sound and make kind of sense no 946 00:45:41,589 --> 00:45:37,589 sound no salad I should say but like the 947 00:45:45,380 --> 00:45:41,599 gurgling in my mouth it's a threat but 948 00:45:48,980 --> 00:45:45,390 one evening one of the team members says 949 00:45:51,740 --> 00:45:48,990 behind you and I turn around and about 950 00:45:55,460 --> 00:45:51,750 six feet behind me is a baseball sized 951 00:45:59,630 --> 00:45:55,470 light ball and a very club well six feet 952 00:46:02,120 --> 00:45:59,640 and not very high above my head and it 953 00:46:05,270 --> 00:46:02,130 was a halo you but yeah sort of but 954 00:46:07,039 --> 00:46:05,280 she'd have no idea it was even there is 955 00:46:08,930 --> 00:46:07,049 nothing no warmth or and no tingling 956 00:46:10,130 --> 00:46:08,940 sensation or nothing like that at all 957 00:46:12,440 --> 00:46:10,140 do you think you can put your hand 958 00:46:14,510 --> 00:46:12,450 through it if you well I didn't ever get 959 00:46:16,400 --> 00:46:14,520 it was not try you wouldn't try nope 960 00:46:19,609 --> 00:46:16,410 there's a good deal of pride a ribbon 961 00:46:22,250 --> 00:46:19,619 fry a river over you yeah that's what it 962 00:46:25,190 --> 00:46:22,260 would be huh from it not more lightning 963 00:46:29,720 --> 00:46:25,200 though oh no no no it's not attached 964 00:46:32,779 --> 00:46:29,730 anything observations have a duration of 965 00:46:34,400 --> 00:46:32,789 a half hour to an hour and you know it's 966 00:46:37,460 --> 00:46:34,410 not some of them some of them have taken 967 00:46:41,510 --> 00:46:37,470 on the appearance of craft mmm 968 00:46:43,460 --> 00:46:41,520 there have been just a handful of solid 969 00:46:46,670 --> 00:46:43,470 objects structured I'm sure one is 970 00:46:48,349 --> 00:46:46,680 enough true yeah yeah yeah I mean so 971 00:46:49,609 --> 00:46:48,359 there seems to be some connect otherwise 972 00:46:51,890 --> 00:46:49,619 we could say well they're ghost lights 973 00:46:54,349 --> 00:46:51,900 or the orbs or something not be UFOs but 974 00:46:55,670 --> 00:46:54,359 if they if they do come in a structured 975 00:46:57,859 --> 00:46:55,680 craft unless maybe they're coming to 976 00:47:02,150 --> 00:46:57,869 look at the land well but again there's 977 00:47:04,789 --> 00:47:02,160 the occasional UFO whoa what's the 978 00:47:07,099 --> 00:47:04,799 largest Lightner thing that's been seen 979 00:47:09,019 --> 00:47:07,109 that light thing well whatever what's 980 00:47:11,000 --> 00:47:09,029 the largest well the what ID'd the 981 00:47:13,430 --> 00:47:11,010 largest object would have been to 982 00:47:17,809 --> 00:47:13,440 structured objects Oh see that were 983 00:47:20,450 --> 00:47:17,819 captured on video estimated by multiple 984 00:47:21,319 --> 00:47:20,460 witnesses to be about the length of a 985 00:47:23,480 --> 00:47:21,329 football field 986 00:47:26,089 --> 00:47:23,490 oh well well I'm thinking of it why 987 00:47:28,640 --> 00:47:26,099 don't you tell people where they can get 988 00:47:30,100 --> 00:47:28,650 your DVD the army most 989 00:47:34,550 --> 00:47:30,110 yes that's really a good question 990 00:47:38,030 --> 00:47:34,560 because I set my website yes I know yeah 991 00:47:41,180 --> 00:47:38,040 yeah I got tired of people emailing me 992 00:47:43,130 --> 00:47:41,190 and saying you need more photos Wow and 993 00:47:46,670 --> 00:47:43,140 I thought why am i bothering its ass 994 00:47:49,550 --> 00:47:46,680 website yeah and so I guess I'll just 995 00:47:52,550 --> 00:47:49,560 have to catch a lecture or what's for a 996 00:47:53,810 --> 00:47:52,560 website yeah I'm working okay I'll try 997 00:47:57,380 --> 00:47:53,820 it one more time all right 998 00:47:58,970 --> 00:47:57,390 and what okay there's no you say there's 999 00:48:00,440 --> 00:47:58,980 no heat there's no sound how many 1000 00:48:05,330 --> 00:48:00,450 witnesses have there been through the 1001 00:48:07,910 --> 00:48:05,340 snow and uh in Marlee 227 and not the 1002 00:48:10,250 --> 00:48:07,920 single person has gone public and you 1003 00:48:12,410 --> 00:48:10,260 don't make up a big fat line keep it to 1004 00:48:16,310 --> 00:48:12,420 yourself why are these people people 1005 00:48:18,110 --> 00:48:16,320 that live in that area yes no casual 1006 00:48:20,240 --> 00:48:18,120 observers have come by or you haven't 1007 00:48:24,530 --> 00:48:20,250 invited others well I do have a few of 1008 00:48:26,810 --> 00:48:24,540 those types of sightings but generally 1009 00:48:29,810 --> 00:48:26,820 I'm not able to get names because they 1010 00:48:33,020 --> 00:48:29,820 don't want any any part of it the people 1011 00:48:37,190 --> 00:48:33,030 in the woods so to speak 1012 00:48:39,890 --> 00:48:37,200 trust me and I've protected them for 14 1013 00:48:41,750 --> 00:48:39,900 years and so they have no doubt I'll 1014 00:48:45,650 --> 00:48:41,760 continued it and you don't think that 1015 00:48:50,540 --> 00:48:45,660 there's any possibility of a hoax oh no 1016 00:48:53,360 --> 00:48:50,550 no no did I hear you described on some 1017 00:48:56,810 --> 00:48:53,370 show something to do with it don't walk 1018 00:49:02,560 --> 00:48:56,820 or a mutilation well there have been 1019 00:49:06,680 --> 00:49:02,570 some rather severe cattle problems and 1020 00:49:08,390 --> 00:49:06,690 which before this I didn't pay a lot of 1021 00:49:11,780 --> 00:49:08,400 attention to because I thought it was 1022 00:49:15,670 --> 00:49:11,790 you know child's hungry animals and 1023 00:49:18,950 --> 00:49:15,680 things but finding that probably is not 1024 00:49:21,140 --> 00:49:18,960 totally true but there wasn't something 1025 00:49:22,910 --> 00:49:21,150 you do with dogs mm-hm yeah but yeah 1026 00:49:26,860 --> 00:49:22,920 well there's been some some very 1027 00:49:30,320 --> 00:49:26,870 extensive this border soft well actually 1028 00:49:33,710 --> 00:49:30,330 yeah borders on the paranormal yes oh 1029 00:49:34,970 --> 00:49:33,720 yeah yes yes yeah and it's not like a 1030 00:49:37,880 --> 00:49:34,980 little guy gets out 1031 00:49:40,400 --> 00:49:37,890 steelhead auger he'd sit or something 1032 00:49:42,710 --> 00:49:40,410 you know but it's some rather 1033 00:49:45,320 --> 00:49:42,720 extraordinary events that are under 1034 00:49:46,790 --> 00:49:45,330 investigation and what was the story of 1035 00:49:52,849 --> 00:49:46,800 the dogs they got caught in a fence or 1036 00:49:56,330 --> 00:49:52,859 something it would take a long time to 1037 00:49:58,310 --> 00:49:56,340 get into that it is a very protracted in 1038 00:50:02,450 --> 00:49:58,320 two different situations really it 1039 00:50:06,050 --> 00:50:02,460 involves a lot of stuff and it's a devil 1040 00:50:09,230 --> 00:50:06,060 of the story you know and really if we 1041 00:50:11,930 --> 00:50:09,240 had an hour we might get into it well 1042 00:50:17,660 --> 00:50:11,940 but also the the the because they order 1043 00:50:21,620 --> 00:50:17,670 the DVD of Amazon no I just put this 1044 00:50:25,730 --> 00:50:21,630 first part together the first DVD which 1045 00:50:29,510 --> 00:50:25,740 is made up of videos of the various 1046 00:50:33,830 --> 00:50:29,520 activity and part two will be more of a 1047 00:50:36,380 --> 00:50:33,840 story with the investigations and a lot 1048 00:50:39,980 --> 00:50:36,390 more content and maybe a little less 1049 00:50:42,500 --> 00:50:39,990 video but the two combined I think would 1050 00:50:45,230 --> 00:50:42,510 be of great interest really so there's a 1051 00:50:47,960 --> 00:50:45,240 lot of interest in this particular event 1052 00:50:51,290 --> 00:50:47,970 and one thing that I would throw in it 1053 00:50:54,349 --> 00:50:51,300 is in a lot of ways very similar to 1054 00:50:57,980 --> 00:50:54,359 skinwalker ranch and there are a couple 1055 00:51:00,200 --> 00:50:57,990 of other areas like this and I've 1056 00:51:03,500 --> 00:51:00,210 learned if a couple others that was a 1057 00:51:04,880 --> 00:51:03,510 Bradshaw place that I recently kind of 1058 00:51:06,560 --> 00:51:04,890 got involved with I do know what's down 1059 00:51:08,900 --> 00:51:06,570 in Sedona and interviewed this old table 1060 00:51:11,300 --> 00:51:08,910 dango who is kind of the main research 1061 00:51:13,010 --> 00:51:11,310 early of this particular place the 1062 00:51:14,780 --> 00:51:13,020 government there's all sorts of 1063 00:51:16,820 --> 00:51:14,790 mysterious lights and things showing up 1064 00:51:18,800 --> 00:51:16,830 and interdimensional creatures being 1065 00:51:20,510 --> 00:51:18,810 captured whatever they are on the 1066 00:51:24,380 --> 00:51:20,520 photographs and finally the government 1067 00:51:26,300 --> 00:51:24,390 ended up buying the land that's a 1068 00:51:29,570 --> 00:51:26,310 government owned some people do set a 1069 00:51:31,130 --> 00:51:29,580 camp around there but they haven't happy 1070 00:51:32,900 --> 00:51:31,140 ah it seems to go in waves and there 1071 00:51:35,540 --> 00:51:32,910 hasn't been anything in recent well the 1072 00:51:39,670 --> 00:51:35,550 government is probably going to open a 1073 00:51:43,070 --> 00:51:39,680 park maybe a waterslide Park 1074 00:51:43,990 --> 00:51:43,080 I'm sure they have it is how it's been 1075 00:51:46,810 --> 00:51:44,000 it's 1076 00:51:49,270 --> 00:51:46,820 vacant now or it was a woman I've met 1077 00:51:50,350 --> 00:51:49,280 the woman she saw she sold the thickness 1078 00:51:52,810 --> 00:51:50,360 of the government they were very nice 1079 00:51:55,210 --> 00:51:52,820 price for it probably well the 1080 00:51:56,830 --> 00:51:55,220 government moves slowly so you you don't 1081 00:51:59,770 --> 00:51:56,840 want to sit out there by the edge of 1082 00:52:01,870 --> 00:51:59,780 this park or this land and wait you know 1083 00:52:03,790 --> 00:52:01,880 I think it has us a number of 1084 00:52:06,070 --> 00:52:03,800 trespassers the defenses could cut 1085 00:52:07,870 --> 00:52:06,080 through and all that but people are not 1086 00:52:10,390 --> 00:52:07,880 if they're reporting anything they're 1087 00:52:13,840 --> 00:52:10,400 not coming back to talk about it yeah 1088 00:52:16,120 --> 00:52:13,850 well there's a - yeah in it you know at 1089 00:52:19,030 --> 00:52:16,130 my age it's kind of exciting the 1090 00:52:20,860 --> 00:52:19,040 possibility of not coming back well yeah 1091 00:52:25,150 --> 00:52:20,870 oh you've got a lot of work to do I mean 1092 00:52:26,350 --> 00:52:25,160 I don't want to drop a dead man or in a 1093 00:52:28,570 --> 00:52:26,360 cave I wouldn't think 1094 00:52:30,940 --> 00:52:28,580 well now caves are okay I love taters 1095 00:52:33,850 --> 00:52:30,950 yeah have you done a lot of spelunking 1096 00:52:35,830 --> 00:52:33,860 oh my lord since I was 14 okay I didn't 1097 00:52:37,090 --> 00:52:35,840 realize it so your seat your season that 1098 00:52:39,160 --> 00:52:37,100 doing this is not like you're some 1099 00:52:41,350 --> 00:52:39,170 novices gonna go and belong to the 1100 00:52:42,460 --> 00:52:41,360 National speedy Hospital Society have 1101 00:52:45,550 --> 00:52:42,470 you ever written anything to a 1102 00:52:47,680 --> 00:52:45,560 correspondent with anybody uh well 1103 00:52:52,810 --> 00:52:47,690 they're not scientists but adventurers 1104 00:52:54,400 --> 00:52:52,820 or are people that do this for somewhere 1105 00:52:57,670 --> 00:52:54,410 profit they wouldn't do it for profit 1106 00:52:59,380 --> 00:52:57,680 for and exploring yeah yeah no money to 1107 00:53:01,630 --> 00:52:59,390 be made there no no what I'm looking for 1108 00:53:05,920 --> 00:53:01,640 the right word but there must be serious 1109 00:53:10,120 --> 00:53:05,930 cave explorers Cyril okay all right yeah 1110 00:53:13,210 --> 00:53:10,130 yeah yeah I I was the longest cave 1111 00:53:15,130 --> 00:53:13,220 unexplored was 20 miles and believe me 1112 00:53:16,980 --> 00:53:15,140 that's pretty serious I would I would 1113 00:53:20,250 --> 00:53:16,990 say so no I'm just I'm just thinking 1114 00:53:23,200 --> 00:53:20,260 whenever you asked somebody who does 1115 00:53:24,910 --> 00:53:23,210 spelunking Abby questions about like you 1116 00:53:27,010 --> 00:53:24,920 know voices and things that they might 1117 00:53:28,780 --> 00:53:27,020 have seen or heard a lot of them look at 1118 00:53:31,120 --> 00:53:28,790 you like you you must be you know like 1119 00:53:36,220 --> 00:53:31,130 you know well they look at me that way 1120 00:53:37,270 --> 00:53:36,230 yeah man there happen okay sirs and I've 1121 00:53:39,430 --> 00:53:37,280 written about them in some of my books 1122 00:53:42,900 --> 00:53:39,440 of weird things that are had doors 1123 00:53:46,540 --> 00:53:42,910 opening down there and people seeing 1124 00:53:47,980 --> 00:53:46,550 things and so forth of sharp figs some 1125 00:53:53,230 --> 00:53:47,990 of some of them that have even been led 1126 00:53:55,299 --> 00:53:53,240 to safety by yes quite a lot and of 1127 00:53:58,059 --> 00:53:55,309 course we have the Tommyknockers 1128 00:53:59,589 --> 00:53:58,069 yes in fact you mentioned Colorado 1129 00:54:01,539 --> 00:53:59,599 there's a restaurant 1130 00:54:03,669 --> 00:54:01,549 I think it's outside of Boulder or maybe 1131 00:54:05,519 --> 00:54:03,679 Denver can't remember which it's called 1132 00:54:08,469 --> 00:54:05,529 the Tommyknocker and they've got little 1133 00:54:10,359 --> 00:54:08,479 carts full of fake good old and the 1134 00:54:13,689 --> 00:54:10,369 Tommyknockers paintings and all on the 1135 00:54:16,809 --> 00:54:13,699 other wall and Tommyknocker beer that's 1136 00:54:18,429 --> 00:54:16,819 cool I like well that's just like beer I 1137 00:54:20,229 --> 00:54:18,439 don't know what they call it well have 1138 00:54:22,329 --> 00:54:20,239 to well have to share what none of these 1139 00:54:24,279 --> 00:54:22,339 things well I tell you you need to go to 1140 00:54:26,979 --> 00:54:24,289 Slovakia with me because they have 1141 00:54:29,979 --> 00:54:26,989 Tantra beer up in the high Tatra 1142 00:54:34,209 --> 00:54:29,989 mountains of course made from pure talk 1143 00:54:36,999 --> 00:54:34,219 from out in the spring water and 14% man 1144 00:54:39,339 --> 00:54:37,009 it is some well up here up here I'm not 1145 00:54:41,169 --> 00:54:39,349 much of these days of the cave explain 1146 00:54:43,630 --> 00:54:41,179 but ever and your your base camp that 1147 00:54:44,469 --> 00:54:43,640 you'd like it I'd love to him you'd like 1148 00:54:50,349 --> 00:54:44,479 it 1149 00:54:52,929 --> 00:54:50,359 I'm there okay you could be the 1150 00:54:54,849 --> 00:54:52,939 travelling reporter oh I'd love to do it 1151 00:54:57,099 --> 00:54:54,859 it sometimes I would that would be one 1152 00:54:59,289 --> 00:54:57,109 of the the the greatest adventure of my 1153 00:55:02,349 --> 00:54:59,299 life yeah anyway Ted this has been an 1154 00:55:04,839 --> 00:55:02,359 enjoyable conversation and quite a 1155 00:55:07,539 --> 00:55:04,849 weekend and yeah you made it you made it 1156 00:55:12,309 --> 00:55:07,549 you made it happen here at pet market 1157 00:55:15,579 --> 00:55:12,319 illios 51st UFO copperish in the great